Critique of Bahai Administration

Regime Change like Ice Hockey

2006-10-04T17:57:00.000-07:00

Ian Kludge pushing the Baha'i political agenda:Dear Bacquia,Two points:(1) RE paying attention to what they say: many German Jews made that mistake once too. They dismissed Nazi anti-semitism as 'talk' and cheap vote-getting propaganda. They were wrong - and Israel can't afford to be wrong again. I fully support a first strike on Iran's nuclear facilities wherever they may be hidden and by

Where are the 7 million?

2006-09-27T22:18:00.000-07:00

From the late Jackson Ingram-Armstrong:The Encyclopedia Britannica numbers were provided by Baha'i apologists, and EB has fallen to so low an estate that it simply prints what is provided.There are virtually no Baha'is in continental Europe. 700 in Holland, similar in Spain, 2,000 each in Germany and France, fewer in Italy. From a demographic point of view this may as well be "zero."There are

Cluster Stats

2006-09-13T00:39:00.000-07:00

Susan Maneck on Ruhi: ...this last issue of American Baha'i gives some important national statistics regarding the growth of the Faith over the last two months. This is what I can tell you regarding what has happened the last few years.In the US enrollments dropped off by about 60% since the core activities were introduced from about 1500 enrollments per year to 600 or 700. This may well be a

Agencies Supporting Shutdown of Publisher

2006-09-13T00:37:00.000-07:00

UK BAHA'I NEWS EMAIL SERVICENational Spiritual Assemblynsa@bahai.org.uk23 July 2006Dearly loved FriendsThe National Spiritual Assembly has taken the decision that Baha'i Books UKand its agents will cease to distribute books and other items marketed byKalimat Press with immediate effect.The National Assembly's decision was reached as a result of increasingconcern in recent years that a number of

Inquiries from War Correspondence on 'the Faith'

2006-09-13T00:36:00.000-07:00

Subject: What's happening in HaifaDear Ones,Many messages are coming into the World Centre expressing concern and assuring us of prayers for our well being. Certainly, these are appreciated. The staff are all fine and in good spirits.Food is the medicine! I think we will have all gained weight when this is over. The sirens are becoming routineâ€"a nuisance reallyâ€"and the rockets are doing very

Teaching Opportunities during Bombings

2006-09-13T00:32:00.000-07:00

From a BWC staffer:Please don't anyone waste energy worrying about the staff here. We're fine.Pray for us and the World Centre, but don't worry about us. We have excellent civil defense procedures to follow, and we are all well protected.Of course, there are lots of slumber parties going on 'cause the younger staff feel the need for lots of companionship! The war is opening up lots of

More in Commune with the Israelis

2006-09-13T00:30:00.000-07:00

Beginning of Day 2: The lastsirens we heard were last night when we were goingto bed about 10:30 p.m. Sofar today, beautiful blue skies, overwhelming heat, and NO sirens!A few notes about being here ... I get the sense that the BelovedUniversalHouse of Justice is allowing us all here because it doesn't want toprevent usfrom attaining our hearts' desire when we have been waiting so long. Iamfilled

House is Monitoring the Situation!

2006-09-13T00:27:00.000-07:00

In the late morning, -------- and ------- came to our hotel andprovided an orientation. We went to the Pilgrim House and registered. This afternoon, just as the first group was headed toward the Shrines, the sirens went off.They went off three times in succession. We all had to go to the bomb shelters. We were in there for quite some time. No one "complained." We were all just happy to be

Blessed in the First Day

2006-09-13T00:23:00.000-07:00

This information received from Dr. Nabil Ali 17 July2006ginger fuller's report from HaifaMy sister Sandra called me this morning to let me knowthat Haifa was hit a number of times today but theBaha'i properties have not been hit. She has a verygood view of Haifa from her office. As the bombs andmissiles were landing in Haifa she could actually seethem. A number of Bahá’ís had joined her in her

Rocket Coverage good 'for the Faith'

2006-09-13T00:20:00.000-07:00

Today the Baha'is got some unbelievable press on CNN.Apparently the two rockets from Lebanon aimed at Haifa landed just beyond the Baha'i shrines on Mt. Carmel, on some road --- they didn't mention which one. However, the two newscasters --- I didn't get their names but I'll try later --- went on and on about the Baha'i Faith, how beautiful it was. "If you have ever been there, the temples are

Individuals are free, or are they ..

2006-09-13T00:14:00.000-07:00

HE UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTICEDEPARTMENT OF THE SECRETARIATBahá’í World Centre • P.O. Box 155 • 31001 Haifa, IsraelTel: 972 (4) 835 8358 • Fax: 972 (4) 835 8280 • Email: secretariat@bwc.org12 June 2006Transmitted by email: xxxxxxDear Bahá’í Friend,The Universal House of Justice has received your email letter dated 21 May 2006, and we have been asked to convey the following in response.Your inquiry

Prof. Moshe Sharon instructing BWC research

2006-09-13T00:06:00.000-07:00

From: Moshe Sharon Subject: Re: Nabi / RasulDate sent: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 10:06:08 +0200___________Dear Mr. TerryYour question was whether Baha'u'llah called himself Nabi or Rasul. I said that he did not, as far as I know, used these two specific titles among all the titles which he used for himself. The fact that he regarded the Rasuls and Anbia' as the manifestation of God is obvious. This was

Leave Us Alone

2006-09-13T00:03:00.000-07:00

From: COMMUNITY [mailto:COMMUNITY@usbnc.org]Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 10:01 AMTo: May, DannSubject: Request to meet with youImportance: HighMr. Dann MayDear Baha'i Friend,The National Spiritual Assembly has tried twice to reach you and your wife by phone at the only phone number we have for you, so we hope that this email address is current. The National Assembly was sorry to learn of your

Independent Publisher Shut down

2006-09-12T23:51:00.000-07:00

From "The American Baha'i Online Edition":National Assembly decision regarding Kalimat PressPublished: 12/30/2005The National Spiritual Assembly wishes to draw to your attention a recent decision it has reached regarding the distribution of books and other materials marketed by Kalimat Press.Please see at right [below] letters written by the National Assembly to Kalimat and to Local Spiritual

Entry by Troops for many Religions

2006-09-12T23:48:00.000-07:00

Peter Terry 10/12/05:There are many religions who believe that at some time in the future everyone will be converted to their Faith, and that the governments of the world will supplanted by, converted into, or subordinate to the Kingdom of God on earth. Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, many evangelical and fundamentalist Protestant denominations, both Shi'i and Sunni Muslims, Orthodox Jews, even in

Pattern of Institutions

2006-09-12T23:47:00.000-07:00

Peter Terry 09/12/05:Contradicting the institutions of the Faith in a public forum is a form of disobedience, and apparently one that the Universal House of Justice regards as grave and, if constituting a pattern of behavior, it has repeatedly ruled that this behavior merits the formal disassociation of the individual from the Baha'i Community.

Arrest of Lotus Temple Trustees

2006-09-12T23:43:00.000-07:00

UNI PAT AK ND1938New DelhiHigh Court stays arrest of Lotus temple trusteeshttp://www.hindu.com/2006/08/19/stories/2006081914800400.htmThe Delhi High Court on Friday stayed the arrest of thetrustees and management committee members of Delhi's Lotus temple, till September 25 on a complaint registered with the Delhi Police.Justice A K Sikri directed the Economic Offence Wing(EOW) of the Delhi Police

Baha'i Spy Ring Busted

2006-09-12T23:40:00.000-07:00

July 13thNAZIYA AlviNew DelhiIn A complaint filed in a city court, a few trustees of the NationalSpiritual Assembly of Bahais of India have been accused of espionage bytheir colleagues.Apparently, they were supplying classified documentsfrom India's defence establishments to Israeli and Iranian spyingagencies and making huge amounts in foreign currency. Taking cognisance of the complaint, the

Apologetic's News Sources

2006-07-21T01:55:00.000-07:00

Kent Johnson wrote on 19/07/06:Dear Everyone, Yesterday was another five-alarm day, but nothing dropped on Haifa. Today no sirens, but we heard rockets hit, so they must have hit close by. But no warning siren. Figure that. Haaretz is your best online option for finding out what is going on. The trailer announced the hits in Haifa within a minute or two. The lead article explains why the IDF

Doesn't matter, just Sign Them in

2006-06-27T01:12:00.000-07:00

"If we made the requirements too rigorous, we will cool off the initial enthusiasm, rebuff the hearts and cease to expand rapidly. The essential thing is that the candidate for enrollment should believe in his heart in the truth of Bahá'u'lláh. Whether he is literate or illiterate, informed of all Teachings or' not, is beside the point entirely. When the spark of faith exists the essential

'Authorised' attacks

2006-06-13T21:43:00.000-07:00

Dear shambles,Next time you "attack" me make sure you obtain the proper "institutional" authorization to do so. Here on these boards there are authorized "attackers," such as Paul Hammond who just attacked you because you have not been authorized to "attack."If you do not obtain the proper authorizations through the correct "institutional" channels, the authorized "attackers" become very peaved

Extracts from 'David Kelly, the Baha'i and Masons

2006-05-18T23:56:00.000-07:00

DAVID KELLY, THE BAHA'I AND MASONS By Jim Rarey December 14, 2003 Permission is granted to reproduce this article in its entirety. The author is a free lance writer based in Romulus, Michigan. He is a former newspaper editor and investigative reporter, a retired customs administrator and accountant, and a student of history and the U.S. Constitution. In previous articles we have detailed the

Nakhjavani's State

2006-05-18T01:48:00.000-07:00

Some youth friends that were in service at the Bahá'í World Centre, told me that they feel near the day when Jews enter the Faith, but I think it couldn't be done before the end of Israel-Palestine-(Muslims) conflict and frontier tension. Moreover, I think that Israel will be the first "Bahá'í State", however, this will be gradual, Mr. Nakhjavani quote seven stages of a country before convert to

Martyr? cause they say so

2006-05-18T01:25:00.000-07:00

Pat Kohli displaying his analytical skills 18/05/06:The man was a victim of the cruelty of your masters. Get used to it; grow some humanity! He was designated a martyr for his scrifice; it is non of your business since you say you are not a Bahai. "Mr. Mahrami, who died of causes that are not clear, was designated a martyr by the Universal House of Justice, the international governing body of

Price of Chicken?

2006-05-18T01:23:00.000-07:00

Susan Maneck on growth of the so called faith:Dear Matt, Numerically the Faith has been growing mostly in places like Mongolia which is unlikely to be sending many pilgrims out. But there has been a tremendous increase in the number of Baha'is requesting pilgrimage, which might suggest an increase in the size of the active core of believers especially among populations which can afford pilgrimage

Scripture Censorship

2006-05-16T17:10:00.000-07:00

Any and all scripture that would call into question Baha'i orthodoxy is censored. Is there an authorized Baha'i version of the Bab's W&T, no; is there an authorized Baha'i version of the Bab's Bayan, no. Why?, because these scriptures call into question the very legitimacy of the Baha'i faith and of Baha'u'llah's covenantal claims. If Baha'u'llah's and Abdu'l-Baha's Wills and Testaments are taken

Backstabbing - Baha'i Style

2006-05-10T23:33:00.000-07:00

Pat Kohli blowing Badi Villars cover on trb 09/05/06:If you were in Italy, your IP address, 201.230.118.185, would be in RIPE. Your IP address is not in RIPE, but in LACNIC. LACNIC says your IP address is assigned to Telefonica Del Peru Lib wrote: > Azal yazdi: >>>It is easier to prove if you are homosexual. >>Are you offering yourself as the test for this proof? You are too old. >>Send your "

Islam in Crisis for Baha'ullah

2006-02-17T00:26:00.000-08:00

Matt Menge 17/02/06 in response to a deep question:>>Why do Arab terrorists hate us? Dear Bob, The Arabs are a great people that have accomplished many wonderful things. However, Islam is under the wrath of God for what it did to Baha'u'llah. Muslims are going to suffer for more than 1000 years for the incredible suffering that they inflicted on Baha'u'llah, just as the Jews suffered for the

Mahrami - What happened exactly?

2006-01-30T23:12:00.000-08:00

Untold Facts on the Controversial Death of a Baha’i in Prisonhttp://www.baztab.com/news/32546.php24th December 2005News Code: 32546 In a report from Yazd, our reporter disclosed untold facts about the process of imprisonment and death of Zabih’u’llah Mahrami, a Baha’i prisoner.According to this report Zabih’u’llah Mahrami was first detained in 1995 on the charge of spying and having links with

Not Allowed

2006-01-30T23:10:00.000-08:00

Susan Maneck 30/01/06>I've worked in Iran for years and know first hand that there is no secretly sponsored missionary campaign funded by the Universal House of Justice. What some Baha'is are doing on their own volition is I assume what you're confusing.Those wouldn't be Western Baha'is in any case. The House of Justice does not allow them to go to Iran and if they go anyhow you can be sure they

Just why do you do this, Susan?

2006-01-29T23:22:00.000-08:00

Ron House on 30/01/06:sman...@jam.rr.com wrote: >>No, but it might help if you explained its relevance. Has someone been claiming that the deductions and conclusions of individual learned men have authority? > Dear John, > Didn't you read the post I was answering? And what right do you have to be surprised if someone misses which post you are answering? You, no one else I have ever noticed on all

Messing with Opponent's emails

2006-01-29T23:19:00.000-08:00

Wahid Azal on 30/01/05:Please note that the Canadian resident baha'i cultist Brendan Cook, is posing with my address: as wahidazal...@gmail.com That is not my address, which is wahidaza...@gmail.com. Please note that this is the Baha'i method and technique which is a directive given by the baha'i administration to these paid hack apparatchicks to impliment on TRB. Note also that these Brendan

Not What the House had in Mind

2006-01-26T01:11:00.000-08:00

Susan Maneck on 26/1/06:Nonsense. That's a complete distortion of the Nov. 14 letter. The Universal House of Justice has never objected to the study of theology. What they have objected to is people like Sen setting themselves up as theologians in a position to critique the Universal House of Justice which he regarded as ignorant laymen.John MacLeod 26/1/06What people actually saw was a letter

Bankruptcy of the Whole Baha'i System

2006-01-24T21:24:00.000-08:00

K Paul Johnson on 24/01/06:Adding to the grounds for pessimism is the fact that all the divergent Baha'i sects are even more narrow, conservative, and fundamentalist than the Haifans. (A phenomenon familiar to Theosophists btw.) If a progressive shift were possible, why wouldn't Chanler/Sohrab have created an offshoot that survived and grew, rather than one that went extinct within a generation?

Grumpling and Opposition: Maneckian Style

2006-01-24T21:08:00.000-08:00

Susan Maneck 23/01/06:> Disagreement is not active opposition unless that disagreement expresses itself as active opposition. So if you get on the internet and try and tell everyone how some House decision is wrong, that is active opposition. If you are just grumpling to yourself and maybe a few friends, it isn't. Ron House 24/01/06:It's not worth wasting words to point out why a world run by

Extent of the Whitewash

2006-01-23T23:51:00.000-08:00

K Paul Johnson 23/01/06:>So the question becomes not so muchof whether they were lied to, but how could theliberal hippies who joined it back then be so damnedstupid in the first place.I can perhaps offer some context that will help you understand how we were sold a bill of goods. First of all, the Aqdas was not published and its contents were quite mysterious until 1973 when the House put out a

City Council Digger

2006-01-22T20:59:00.000-08:00

Ron House responding to Susan Maneck on 23/01/06:>"As to the thoughts of the Baha'is themselves -- that is those who have chosen to follow the religion of Baha'u'llah -- the institutions do not busy themselves with what individual believers think unless those thoughts become expressed in actions which are inimical to the basic principles and vital interests of the Faith." So you can hold a

Simple Matters

2006-01-22T20:57:00.000-08:00

Susan Maneck on 21/01/06:>So disagreeing is the same as opposing? Bring on the mind control police. No, if it is simply a matter of personal disagreement which one is not attempting to spread to others, it isn't a problem. As the House wrote: "As to the thoughts of the Baha'is themselves -- that is those who have chosen to follow the religion of Baha'u'llah -- the institutions do not busy

Prohibited

2006-01-22T20:56:00.000-08:00

Susan Maneck 19/01/06:> And that disagrees with John's statement how? Don't tell me, in the paranoid-delusional mindset, disagreeing is the same as disobeying. I know. Just letting you know that there's billions of sane people out there who recognise that you can obey a law whilst disagreeing with it. Sure you can. But Abdu'l-Baha prohibited both opposing and disobeying.

More Lenient than Shoghi

2006-01-22T20:54:00.000-08:00

Susan Maneck on 19/01/06:>I don't remember any cases of people who simply said they wanted out of the faith because they disliked the AO being declared Covenant Breakers. I think a few may have lost administrative rights. Covenant breaking, as it was taught to me, was reserved for those who tried to set up an alternative administration Dear John, No, no one was every declared a Covenant breaker

Definitions

2006-01-18T15:01:00.000-08:00

Pat Kohli pontificating on the esoteric on 19/01/06:> Well, there is a "batin" meaning and a "zahir" meaning. What is the Zahir (literal) meaning of Resurrection? Zahir is not so much a literal meaning as an outer meaning. Picture a distinction between fact and Truth. Truth is Batin while fact is Zahir.

Why I don't read Shoghi

2006-01-18T15:00:00.000-08:00

Pat Kohli on 19/01/06>>>I do not read Shoghi Effendi. << > Interesting. He passed away to the Abha Kingdom in 1957. He was the Head of the Faith, at the time, and the living interpreter of the teachings of 'Abdu'l Baha, Baha'u'llah, and, for my purposes (not yours) the Primal Point. Nearly sixty years later, I would think that he would want me to draw my inspiration from the Central Figures of

Don't read Shoghi

2006-01-18T14:59:00.000-08:00

Pat Kohli on 18/01/06:> Shoghi Effendi however assumes high > stations for Husayn-Ali's daughter 'Sultan Khanum' and compares her > with Sarah, Asiya, the virgin Mary, Fatima and Tahira (Qurrat-al-Ayn) > and believes that Sultan Khanum's station is even higher than that of > Tahira. So, I suppose Bahais should focus on Sultan Khanum because they > should not have anything to do with a Letter in a

About Meaning we Assign to Words

2006-01-18T14:58:00.000-08:00

Susan Maneck 19/01/06:> This is worth noting because she also wrote this to me, expliciting > comparing "Baha'i beliefs" with a political ideology: Dear Brendan, I hope that wasn't a private post you just quoted from. In any case, my point there had to do with the meaning we assign to words, not that the Baha'i Faith is comparable to a political ideology.

Or is it a Political Entity?

2006-01-18T14:56:00.000-08:00

Polychrysos wrote on 19/01/06:Just for your benefit, I'd like to point something out. Susan just said this to you: "What you can't seem to get is that the Baha'i Faith is not a political entity and we are not governed by the kind of partisanship you are seeking to promote." This is worth noting because she also wrote this to me, expliciting comparing "Baha'i beliefs" with a political ideology: "

Not a Political Entity

2006-01-18T14:55:00.000-08:00

Susan Maneck 19/01/06:> An answer is that just as the United States of America is not defined by > the platform of the Republican Party, similarily the ocean of > Baha'u'llah's revelation does not shrink to the size of the fundamentalist > agenda by the clique that have taken control of the administration of the > largest Baha'i sect. Michael, What you can't seem to get is that the Baha'i Faith

Humane Practice of Removal

2006-01-18T14:54:00.000-08:00

Susan Maneck 19/01/06:> least up to the level of NSAs. I knew several cases of resignations being > rejected because the NSA believed that the person concerned still believed in > Baha'u'llah. Yes, it was the case that prior to recent times, one usually had to deny Baha'u'llah to be taken off the rolls. But people who rejected the Administrative Order were typically considered Covenant breakers.

Eat Flesh vs Sex with Prostitute: Baha'i Logic

2006-01-17T22:28:00.000-08:00

Baha'i Warrior on 16/01/06:Also common sense tells us that if you kill someone then eat his flesh, this is worse than having intercourse with a prostitute. however, both are forbidden and both will have a negative impact on your spirit. let us learn to take control of our base natures thru prayer and meditation. our spiritual nature wants to marry the girl then have legal sex with her, whereas

Refute Books or Businesses

2006-01-17T18:21:00.000-08:00

Ron House on 18/1/06:sman...@jam.rr.com wrote: > "...It is incumbent upon all men, each > according to his ability, to refute the arguments of those that have > attacked the Faith of God." And not stocking the books that they are supposed to refute helps people obey this instruction of Baha'u'llah's how, exactly?

No Need to Worry

2006-01-17T18:20:00.000-08:00

Susan Maneck on 18/1/06:> I very much look forward to all Baha'is living the Baha'i life and not > joining such an effort to deprive Baha'is of their livlihood. I wouldn't worry about it, Michael. Kalimat never made much money anyhow and Tony's wife's a doctor

Infactuation with Buildings

2006-01-16T22:26:00.000-08:00

123Infinity wrote on 17/01/06:> Most Europeans are not atheists, they are simply not church-goers. > warmest, Susan That's to bad, they got some great sounding cathedrals and most took several live times to build.

"Dh" in Mahramu

2006-01-16T21:36:00.000-08:00

Moradbarqi wrote on 10/01/05:Can someone explain why uhj have reinvented the spelling of this guy's name?He is called Zabih'u'llah in Iran and used to spell his name as such.All of a sudden he dies and becomes "Dhabih'u'llah". The message is insure yourself against uhj dictation before you die.Chris how would you like to die and be remembered as kriz?

Better not

2006-01-16T21:34:00.000-08:00

Baha'i Warrior on 05/01/06:Yeah if some guy lost his administrative rights, chances are he's bitter about the Faith and if he writes something most likely it will be critical, as is the case with some Kalimat books. I'm not saying they are bad people, what I am saying is that I don't think what they are going to write is going to be very constructive, as is usually the case. PS--If the UHJ says

Not for Public Eyes

2006-01-16T21:33:00.000-08:00

Another guest on 04/01/06:Don't forget "The believers are reminded that letters from the Institutions of the Faith to the Bahá’ís should generally not be disseminated in public venues, electronic or otherwise.”

Before you read ..

2006-01-16T21:32:00.000-08:00

Baha'i Warrior on 04/01/06:conclusion: before you read a "Baha'i" book make sure it isn't written by an ex-Baha'i!

Business Ties

2006-01-16T21:31:00.000-08:00

Susan Maneck on 17/01/06:>The NSA has unofficially shunned Kalimat. I think it would be more precise to say they severed their business relationship with them.

Dysfunctional Religion cause of Haifan Tradition slip

2006-01-11T20:21:00.000-08:00

Larry Rowe 12/01/06:And as for Alison's offer of friendship after her declaration that I'm not within her definition of Haifa tradition, put the shoe on the other foot and see how silly such a declaration would be coming from the U.H.J. to Alison, especially from Peter Khan: "Dear Alison do not think that we have cut off our friendship from you simply because we have cut you off spiritually from

"Paul Hammond" is Bizarre

2006-01-10T21:50:00.000-08:00

K Paul Johnson addressing "Paul Hammond" on 05/01/06:Paul, What has Larry to do with this thread? You are accusing him here of trying to convince people that he has a "direct link to the man upstairs." Pretty harsh stuff, considering that he's not claiming anything more than that we all have such a direct link-- and not to any man up any stairs.You are echoing the exclusivistic Baha'i

Shunning part of my Nature

2006-01-08T18:26:00.000-08:00

Pat Kohli on 09/01/06:Sure, but I was just going to shun Covenant Breakers because 'Abdu'l Baha told me to. This is an exercise in faith. Were I to simply sort out everything on my own, never relying on the Central Figures, I'd be drinking, and maybe gambling when ever I felt like it. I'd pass on the fasting, always being open to fast tomorrow, and rationalizing why I don't need to fast today.

Inimical Matters

2006-01-08T18:21:00.000-08:00

NATIONAL SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY of the BAHÁ'ÍS OF THE UNITED STATES 536 SHERIDAN ROAD, WILMETTE, ILLINOIS 60091-2849 • (847) 733-3537• EMAIL:secretariat@usbnc.orgDecember 29, 2005To all Local Spiritual AssembliesDear Bahá'í Friends,Enclosed for your information is a copy of our letter of today’s date addressed to Kalimát Press. We ask you to comply with the decision we have made that all national and

Baha'i Channels

2005-12-28T23:23:00.000-08:00

El_Baquiano wrote on 23/12/05:The thing is that the AO has plucked out of thin air this doctrine that 'things must go through channels'. ok, fine...pluck away! It sounds good, after all.But here's the thing...the channels are blocked. They are filled with filth and garbage and all sorts of excrement. Nothing gets through them! Things are spilling out, in fact.So by asking people to 'go through

Baha'i Technique

2005-12-28T23:19:00.000-08:00

El_Baquiano wrote on 23/12/05:As to the 'Baha'i Technique', I don't really like that label. First of all, there is nothing 'Baha'i' about it. I prefer to call it intellectual dishonesty, because I can see in their words and subsequent actions (denial, ignoring when the tactic is pointed out, evasion, etc.) that they know very well what they are doing - they choose to be intellectually dishonest..

Used for Propaganda

2005-12-28T17:58:00.000-08:00

Larry Rowe 29/12/05:To you and I Bible study classes may seem about as innocuous as things get, almost. My son came back from a Christian summer camp this year and declared that he was now a Christian. Indoctrination is indoctrination and none of it is innocuous and impartial religious education, there is an intent. According to Iranian law non-Muslims are prohibited from holding such

Ruhi - A Bad Joke

2005-12-28T17:56:00.000-08:00

Larry Rowe on 29/12/05:When you hold public classes in a university classroom it is hardly private or intended for deepened Persian Baha'is. Ruhi is a bad joke to anyone who is literate or illiterate for that matter. The U.H.J's true intent is clear, cause a reaction and sit back and see how much free publicity it can garner as well as getting it's shallow PR attempts back in the U.N. lime-light.

Purpose behind Moderations

2005-12-26T18:08:00.000-08:00

Fred Glaysher on 26/12/05:Similarly, most of the Baha'i discussions groups on Yahoo that are moderated are used to identify and control dissenters, including "unenrolled" Baha'i, Bahai-Apologetics, and talisman9. A concomitant result on all forums, as on BeliefNet, is preventing the development of serious critical thought, reflection, and discussion. Further, the abuse liberals are subjected to

I Never Denied

2005-12-22T22:14:00.000-08:00

Susan Maneck 23/12/05:> This is _not_ the 18th time you've lied here, is it? LOL. I never denied they were doing Ruihi Sudy Circles n Iran in any case. What I denied was this absurd charge that Western Baha'is were being brought in to tutor them and that this has something to do with the retirement of two House members.

Excommunication by Bacquet

2005-12-21T18:52:00.000-08:00

Larry Rowe 22/12/05:I had to laugh today. I noticed I wasn't getting any more e-mails from Irfan19 or unenrolledbaha'i so I went to yahoo mygroups to check my status and lo and behold I have been summarily excommunicated by Karen from both lists without the courtesy of even an e-mail to notify me. Seems she's become just as fundamentalistic as the U.H.J., even more so, at least they have the

Die for Us

2005-12-20T21:51:00.000-08:00

Wahid Azal 20/12/05:Your wolf cries of "cultural genocide" are not only meaningless they are tout court bullshit, and as is about to be demonstrated publicly by human rights scholar Reza Afshari. There is not a single group in the secular Iranian opposition that takes you people or your bogus "cultural genocide" cries seriously anymore, ergo why you are having to spend so much money on satellite

Admission

2005-12-20T21:49:00.000-08:00

Wahid Azal 20/12/05:>Tell me, which Iranian law forbids study circles? So you finally admit to having these circles.

Don't know

2005-12-20T21:47:00.000-08:00

Susan Maneck finally agreeing Ruhi is used for teaching 20/12/05:Sure. In fact the only reason I ended up subjecting myself to another book was *because* I had a seeker who was getting something out of it. (She has since declared.) But they are doing study circles all over the world whether they are in countries where they can teach the Faith to others or not. And you can bet that in a country

Ruhi Clergy

2005-12-20T21:45:00.000-08:00

John MacLeod 20/12/05:> Study circles aren't meetings aimed at conversions. Well that depends a lot on the phases of the moon and which particular member of the clergy is badgering you at the moment. There certainly have been periods when we were all encouraged to invite our family, neighbours, workmates, and any stray dogs we could find to study circles in the confident hope that once they had

Silly Workbooks with Colouring Pictures

2005-12-20T21:43:00.000-08:00

Susan Maneck 20/12/05:Heather Carr-Rowe wrote: > Holding Ruhi study classes in Iran is akin to poking a hornets nest with a > stick. Larry, you have got to be kidding. We are talking about a few people sitting around in the living room filling in blanks in a work book and coloring pictures. That is supposed to be some kind of threat? > Thing is such non-Muslim religious meetings which are aimed

Which Law?

2005-12-20T21:42:00.000-08:00

Susan Maneck 19/12/05:> through flagrantly disregarding the laws of Iran which > do not allow for things such as Ruhi to be proselytized to Iranians, should > not be overlooked. They had Ruhi Study Circles in Iran? What a crime! Tell me, which Iranian law forbids study circles?

Attribute Expert

2005-12-19T00:21:00.000-08:00

Matt Menge 03/12/05:Might" is an attribute of God. Another attribute of God is "Wronged One".Best Regards,Matt

Alison Carries Weight with UHJ

2005-12-19T00:18:00.000-08:00

Matt Menge 02/12/05Dear Firestorm,Obviously any Baha'i can be disenrolled and I was not attempting to say otherwise. My point is that I think it is significant that both Alison Marshall and Sen McGlinn were Baha'i scholars. In my mind this means that the House of Justice gives a lot of weight to what scholars say and do.Some scholars may pursue their careers out of curiousity and love of the

Same Old, same old

2005-12-18T20:54:00.000-08:00

From Larry Rowe's last post on Talisman:Dear Talismanians, It appears that an agenda is being foisted on the subjects and topics that are open for consultation here on talisman9; this, even above and beyond topics not strictly in the Haifan Baha'i tradition. It appears that it is now Steven and Alison Marshall which dictate the topics which are allowed to be openly discussed here on talisman at

Tax Case

2005-12-18T20:48:00.000-08:00

Chris Buck on behalf of the AO: Dear Cal:Just how does the Baha'i Faith discriminate against women and gays? First, define what you mean (or the ACLU means) by "discrimination." Then cite instances.If, for instance, you mean the fact that women are barred from election to the Universal House of Justice, under a Baha'i system they are also barred from armed combat. Since a number of secular (and

Dishonouring Individuality

2005-12-18T20:45:00.000-08:00

Peter Terry ranted on 14/12/05:Dear Juan, As for the individuals who have resigned from the Baha'i community or have been removed from membership, each of their stories is different, and to generalize about them as a group is to dishonor the individuality of each case as well as to misrepresent the facts of each situation. While interviews with those individuals might well result in the

Judicious Comparison

2005-12-08T23:02:00.000-08:00

Peter Terry steps in it again 08/12/05:But most religious communities do not have female leaders, at least at the highest levels. This is because, like the Baha'i Faith, there are doctrinal reasons why leadership has been traditionally held by men, and in faith communities where traditional values are generally adhered to, this doctrinal preference for male leadership continues. Whether this

Uphold that Unity of Doctrine

2005-12-06T21:34:00.001-08:00

Peter Terry rants on 06/12/05: It has become increasingly evident, in the past few years, that there are doctrinal requirements of enrolled members of the Baha'i Community, that is, there are limits to what they may publicly espouse as believers. While some commentators have opined that such requirements do not exist in the Faith of Baha'u'llah, or that they are an innovation recently introduced

McKenney Unmasked

2005-12-06T21:28:00.000-08:00

Wahid Azal on 07/12/05:Michael, You are a phony. You have been exposed by me as a fraud. Put your sorry tail between your legs and take your long-winded rants, together your stupid views of accomodation with certifiable criminals and AO mafioso, and stick it as far as it will go into your fantasy-writing backside. You are a bona fide kafir (i.e. one who hides and covers the manifest Truth with

Collective Viruses

2005-12-06T00:33:00.000-08:00

Susan Maneck on 04/12/05:>Well, to tell you the truth I once accidentally sent the World Centre a virus. So maybe I'm not a Baha'i in good standing. Wahid Azal on 06/12/05:Interesting how viruses abound amongst and within "Baha'is in good standing. ;-}." After all it is my contention that you lot are yourselves viruses! Viruses whose only inoculation is yours truly and my fist pounding into your

Methods of the Rumanuan Communist Party

2005-12-06T00:31:00.000-08:00

wahidaza...@gmail.com wrote on 05/12/05: > The Bottom Line, Ron, is that indeed I was being spied on. And, more importantly, I was being spied on by "the Institutions" from within my own extended family, i.e. the Stalinist modus operandi of the baha'i cult throughout. Other than some close family members, who under unguarded circumstances blabbed to others, I had not told very many people that I

Eat from the Same Troff

2005-12-04T14:50:00.000-08:00

Wahid Azal on 03/12/05But in any case, the whole minority-intellectual-elite argument is one presented by Shapour Rasekh in Rag-i-Taak: a deliberate - and badly written - work of colonialist nonsense, if there ever was, which the baha'is have been touting alll around the place since 1999. Abbas Amanat technically is not a baha'i. But I do agree with you that the man holds solid baha'i biases.The

Time Drawing to a Close

2005-12-01T22:27:00.000-08:00

Ron House on 01/12/05:But of course, the truth is that condolences belong to the Haifa AO, which is killing itself in dribs and drabs. To you I offer my heart-felt sympathy for the sadness that you are probably feeling now for what the Baha'i Faith might have and should have been; but after that, I must also offer my congratulations that your sterling name will not be connected with the downfall

Sullen, Completely Burnt Out

2005-12-01T22:19:00.000-08:00

Craig wrote on 01/12/05I dedicated 34 years of my life to something that has gone completelyoff the rails. I do not see that there is any way back now. A linehas been crossed because a scholarly book has been written andpublished out in the real free and open world and the consequenceswill be very, very serious now for this punitive action. It should have all been just a discussion of ideas among

Marshall's Open Racism

2005-12-01T22:17:00.000-08:00

Mushroom wrote on 01/12/05:Is it my imagination or is it a fact that a disproportionate number of historians specialising in Iran's history of the past couple of centuries are from religious minorities? Janet Afari, Abbas Amaanat, Ervand Abrahamian, Mangol Bayat....... Steve Marshall responded on 01/12/05No, but a disproportionate number are refugees and exiles, who just HAPPEN to be members of

Paperwork Spy

2005-12-01T01:02:00.000-08:00

Maneck proving her credential as an online agent on 01/12/05> Are you referring to Book One of "Church and State", Susan? Amazon > incorrectly calls Kalimat the publisher. Kalimat is, in fact, the > distributor. Kalimat is more than the distributer, they had the book printed. And I'll grant you that the only reason they didn't officially publish it is because they would have been responsible for

Covenantally Weak Theologians

2005-11-28T00:52:00.000-08:00

Baquia9 in response to online bahai agent Peter Terry:Peter, I heartily agree. Theologian has a whiff of specialized knowledge and authority. We are so lucky that 'Counsellor' has no such connotation! I mean, what would we do then?!Some crazy fools may argue that the title counsellor has a whiff of authority and specialized knowledge - after all there are actually people who study and work very

Elucidation

2005-11-28T00:50:00.000-08:00

Baquia9 in response to online bahai agent Ian Kludge on 26/11/05:> If someone claims that their mission is to "purify" our understanding of the> Writings, then s/he is also claiming that the understanding of others is> impure or polluted. If not, why would purification be necessary?First of all, Sen is not claiming that his understanding is better than others, all he says is that he is attempting

Mafia Racket

2005-11-27T20:20:00.000-08:00

Wahid Azal on 27/11/05:I think the bottom line is pretty obvious here: it is not about interpretations or personal perspectives or fundie v liberal. Baha'ism is a multi-million dollar mafia run business, whose product line has long ago expired its use by date. Unfortunately there are many employees and beneficiaries to this business racket, many of whom - such as Maniac and I would argue also

Liberal Game Bogus

2005-11-27T20:17:00.000-08:00

Wahid Azal on 28/11/05:It appears that you and Alison have been picking up on each other, actually, establishing that you have been working together -- proving my thesis that the liberal game is bogus and nothing more than a snare to entrap real opposition and people with real balls, set up by the establishment itself. What happened to Larry is precisely what happened to me to the letter of a

Maneck supports Alison

2005-11-27T20:16:00.000-08:00

Susan Maneck on 27/11/05:>would say though that what Alison has said sounds awfully familiar; > sounds as though it could have come from the lips of the UHJ secretariat > itself, if it had lips, or a brain. Sounds very much like fundamentalism. Uh, Larry, when has Secretariat at the World Centre *ever* used the term "Haifan tradition"? It sounds like Alison has picked up on the same thing I have,

Archbishop Alison

2005-11-27T20:13:00.000-08:00

Larry Rowe on 27/11/05: Well I wouldn't call someone a fundamentalist as a slur just as I wouldn't imply that someone is a Covenant Breaker because they are not within my personal definition of the 'Haifan tradition'. I would say though that what Alison has said sounds awfully familiar; sounds as though it could have come from the lips of the UHJ secretariat itself, if it had lips, or a brain.

Alison and the Haifan Tradition

2005-11-27T20:11:00.000-08:00

Alison Marshall displaying loyalty to the Haifan tradition on 25/11/05:LarryThis is where we part company. I don't think your message to Talisman is within the Haifan tradition. If you had a direct link to God independent of Baha'u'llah, then you would be able to produce verses to prove it. But you have never produced anything that would lead me to think you have such direct access to God through

Paranoid Organisation

2005-11-25T12:34:00.000-08:00

Ron House in response to Susan Maneck on 25/11/05:Didn't say "of the kind Nima is describing". I just said spying. For an institution to take the trouble to keep track of people, to accept and retain and act upon information received - about non-Baha'is at that - and to inform other institutions with the clear expectation that they too will track those people, that is communist Rumania-style

All Rolled in to One

2005-11-22T00:52:00.000-08:00

William Pleasant wrote on 21/11/05:Can you look at someone and say: "Hey, man, why don't you become aBahai?It's really great! You'll be free to live under the authority of apack of wealthy men (and only wealthy men) who are totallyunaccountable--they are spies, cops, prosecutors, juries, judges andexecutioners all rolled into one. And on top of that, they are thelegislative and executive branchs,

Peter Terry's Divide

2005-11-20T20:20:00.000-08:00

Cal Rollins on Baha'i agent Peter Terry (20/11/05 on Talisman):It seems to me you're want me to mixup what Allah said and Baha'u'llah forbadeafter thinking on slavery as a social problem for a united world. Right? Areyou expounding new Baha'i doctrine, dogma, or whatever?I think you may be one of those "emblematic" Baha'is who tries to simplify thecomplicated and problematic by sitting in a

Paul Hammond Exposed - Part VII

2005-11-03T19:03:00.000-08:00

After almost a week, Paul Hammond briefly responds.Ron House 24/10 on trb:PaulHammond wrote:Steve Marshall wrote:Ron House wrote:But he has so far been unable to answer! _Something_ about my questionhas utterly silenced him.A killfile? I haven't killfiled Ron, but it appears he's already decided whathe thinks of me without me saying anything.Well, remaining resolutely silent to a question from

2005-11-03T18:59:00.000-08:00

Ron House on 21/10/05 trb responding to Sekhmet (Paul Hammond is nowhere)Sekhmet wrote:> That's quite possible, because I wasn't giving this thread my full> attention until approximately your third iteration of your request.> So, are you telling me that your initial post was in response to one of> Paul's "put up or shut up" posts to Nima? If so, no wonder you got> caught in the crossfire, if you